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Mr. Biz Radio: Creating & Choosing a Mastermind

Unedited transcription of the show is included below:

 (00:00):

Welcome to Mr. Biz radio, Biz. Talk for Biz owners. If you're ready to stop faking the funk and take your business onward and upward, this show is for you. And now here's Mr. Biz, Ken Wentworth.

(00:19):

Alright, welcome to another show, another episode of Mr. Biz Radio with me, Mr. Biz Ken Wentworth. And this week we're gonna talk about you guys have probably heard this term, 1.2 bazillion times, and that is a term of a mastermind and having a mastermind. So we've got someone who is a mastermind at Creating Masterminds, <laugh>. And so we're gonna talk with our guests this week about, you know, what really is a mastermind, what are some of those goals? And most importantly, for those of you out there that maybe have done a mastermind in the past and it didn't go so well, or you're considering having one in the future, what are some, some of the keys to creating a mastermind that is a, a, a great event, is very good for the host, as well as all the attendees, et cetera? So we're talking this week with Mr. Jeremey Shapiro

(01:06):

Jeremy B. Shapiro is a serial entrepreneur, great for the show, with a focus on software as a service, technology and information marketing. In his role as a mentor and coach to entrepreneurs, Jeremy has helped small business owners make the transition from a solopreneur, or even before that, I like to say all the time on the show. Entrepreneur then solopreneur <laugh>, then to business owner. An important distinction that many entrepreneurs can easily miss when working in their business instead of on their business. Since 1998, Jeremy has been helping entrepreneurs discover the core strengths in themselves and their business and realize their true potential, combining compassion and expertise to grow their businesses and attain the freedom they deserve. Through structured masterminding one-on-one coaching and consulting work, Jeremy is able to uncover hidden opportunities within individual businesses that provide the maximum profit for the business owner. Jeremy, Welcome to Mr. Biz Radio.

(02:01):

Thank you so much for having me. This is great. Love the show.

(02:04):

Yeah, well, I appreciate that. So for those of you you guys don't know this, but I, I gotta, I gotta mention this. So Jeremy has been such a trooper. So first of all, we, I had to wait gosh, I think it was a couple of months bef to get him on the show. And then we ran in some technical difficulties. We tried a few weeks back to do the show and producer Allen at the sta at the station was having, they were having some inter internet and intermittent internet issues. And so the show just wasn't, you know, the recording wasn't gonna be good, so we're like, oh, we'll just postpone it in a few days. Then we tried again, still having some internet issues at that point, so we had to postpone for another couple of weeks. So Jeremy has been a trooper, so I really appreciate you hanging with us, Jeremy, to get you on the show here.

(02:45):

Absolutely. My pleasure.

(02:46):

So a lot of stuff to talk about here, a lot of stuff to unpack. But before we start even start diving into all that, I know Mr. Shapiro, entrepreneur himself, tell us a little about your entrepreneurial background, if you would.

(02:58):

For sure. When I first got started in the whole world of entrepreneurialism you know, I was really in high school at the time started my first business, you know, in high school and even managed to land an independent study or a work study program for myself doing client work and doing consulting. That grew to a third iteration of the business once I was actually in college. And then I faced this really interesting inflection point. Both my parents were educators for their, for much of their career. And here I was in college and looking at a growing business, and I faced a really big challenge. Do I continue with university? Or do I hit pause on that while I tend to my growing and scaling business? So I decided to push the pause button on school and focus on a growing business with the promise of, you know, I'll probably come back in the fall.

(03:49):

And, you know, around that time is when I met my, you know, my wife and, you know, she says, she took one look at me, was like, yeah, this, this guy's not going back to school <laugh>. And she's she is not wrong. You know, all these years later, I still have never finished finished university, you know, this is, you know, decades later now. But that one business really turned and spawned off the next business and the next business. And as I look at my businesses over the years, almost every single one has been a spinoff or an offshoot of the existing business. I had solving a problem that our business was facing where there was a gap in the marketplace. And there was an opportunity that we then realized we weren't the only ones with that same challenge. And so we'd start an incubate one business idea, and that often turned into, you know its own thing. So I've built a number of businesses you know, over those years. I've sold a number of businesses over the years. And really where I found my true passion to calling is in working with fellow entrepreneurs who are on that journey themselves, whether it's going from entrepreneur to first time founder, from founder to business owner, from, you know, business owner on up and beyond. And that's really where the mastermind groups have come from, is is creating that community for us fellow business owners.

(05:01):

Well, it's interesting, Jeremy. So, you know, as you, and we see this often with people we've had on the show where, you know, just as you mentioned, you start a business and in that business you realize, holy crap, there's this gap. And you're talking to other people and you say, gosh, I'm not the only one with this gap. And so then you create another business. But I would also say, really that, that also doing those with several different businesses is probably what is incubated into Mastermind and helping others. Because you've been there, done that, you've been through the school of hard knocks and, and it can help a lot of people with your experiences. You know, does that, you think that's something that really kind of formulated over the years as you've gone through these iterations?

(05:42):

I've found for myself personally, being a member of Masterminds was so pivotal and and important in my past businesses. And in fact, you know, one of our software companies we were in a mastermind group quite a high-end group, and we'll talk more about different mastermind group formats in a bit mm-hmm. <Affirmative> but this was sort of a high-end destination mastermind group, and there was an opportunity to create software for one of our businesses. And I said, you know, gee, if we create this solution for ourselves, like should we actually create a separate company around this and help other businesses solve the same problem? And what's funny about this, Ken, is the other folks in the room looked at me and said, Jeremy, you know, that's a terrible business idea, but like, if you're gonna do it, can we also buy in?

(06:23):

Can we get access to that software platform too? And I'm looking at this saying, you know, wait a minute, you're saying not a great idea, but you also want to be a customer. And so, right. You know, we were able to, you know, sort of launch the M V P of that and right out the gate have paying customers. And that's sort of been one theme I've had in almost all my businesses is, you know, bootstrapping and having your initial customers really fund the business from day one, instead of having to go shop your idea and find investors and, you know, really get buy-in before you make your first dollar. Well go prove it by getting a customer, you know, be in the black from day one with positive cash flow and really build a business based on that. So yeah, mastermind has been instrumental in launching a number of businesses and then really being the primary thing that I'm doing is running these kinds of groups.

(07:09):

Well, I love it. And I just, I actually just saw something recently, and I'd seen it before, but it, it just popped up again recently where, you know, talking about that you know, that sort of M V P is, is you know, someone said, look, if you're gonna, you're thinking about doing a course or anything like that, go out and build a landing page, get a, get a u r l, get it to a main, build a landing page and see if you can drive some traffic to it and see what the interest level is. Spend 50 bucks in you know, two or three hours. Try test it for a week or two weeks, see if you get some interest. Don't build something that someone doesn't want. And ironically enough, prove it sounds, it sounds like you were building something that was gonna be valuable for you, and they did, oh, we're not gonna want that, but actually we do want it

(07:50):

<Laugh>. Exactly. Yeah. I've always been a really big fan of, you know, small hinges that swing big doors. So if there's like a little idea that can turn into something bigger or, you know, around the mastermind table, a suggestion for one business owner that they can implement that makes a huge difference in scale like that is really exciting. So anytime we see those kinds of opportunities that's huge. And when we talk to, you know, entrepreneurs about being a founder, that's sort of a different conversation than than going from the foundation stage to really the scaling stage. And then beyond just scaling, you know, we always ask the question, what is it you're in business for? Is it to have a glorified job or is it to really have the true freedom, which is optionality of time?

(08:32):

Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. Key, key aspects there. We're gonna hit a break here guys. We're gonna continue talking with Jeremy about some of the business experiences he's had, creating these masterminds, creating effective masterminds, which is a big difference for those who have been part of some, some of 'em are crappy, honestly. We'll come back, we'll get a Mr. Biz tip of the week and we'll continue on talking with Jeremy Shapiro.

(08:59):

If you would like to reach hundreds of thousands of business owners every week, Mr. Biz radio can help . Our show airs globally seven days a week for more than 25 hours across several internet radio stations, plus 20 plus podcast platforms. Also video exposure on the new exclusive Mr. Biz network streaming channel, which gets blasted to 100 plus streaming platforms and the Mr. Biz YouTube channel and our 350,000 social media followers multiple times every week. Join Mr. Biz nation as an advertiser by emailing us at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it..

(09:38):

Attention Mr. Biz Nation, we have an exclusive offer just for you. Get lifetime access to scarcity, countdown timers, and logic links for only $69. Yes, you heard it right? Only $69. These tools will add urgency to your email campaigns and website pages, helping you increase conversions, sales, and capture more leads. Don't miss this incredible opportunity. Visit tools.thepulsespot.com/get-lifetime-access now and take your business to New Heights.

(10:09):

Got a question for Mr. Biz. You want answered on air, email it to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. Now once again, here's Mr. Biz.

(10:20):

Alright, welcome back to show. It's time for Mr. Biz tip of the week. I get asked this question all the time and actually what Jeremy's experience he may have, he may wanna weigh in on this one as well. But the tip this week, people ask me all the time, how much should I be spending on marketing? And, you know, it's different for every business, of course, and what you're trying to build, but generally speaking, what I'd like to tell folks is that you should be spending somewhere between two and 8% of your gross revenue on marketing. Now, I think that really applies across a lot of different types of businesses. But I think if you get, you, you, and sometimes you can go up to 15% in a nine to 15% range. Let's say if you're launching a new location, you're launching a new product, you're trying to introduce something new to the market, you can temporarily go up into that little bit of a higher range.

(11:08):

But I found when I work with business owners, a lot of times is they're just spending money. And sometimes willy-nilly, sometimes they don't measure the effectiveness of their marketing campaigns, number one. And number two, they don't really have a strategy as to why they're spending the amount that they're spending. And I think if you keep it that way, I had one particular business owner that was, you know, he, he would get sweet talked by the, the salesman that would pop in and want to, you know, Hey, what about this? And we could do this and we could do that. Oh, sure, lemme sign up. And I had to literally pull the reins back and, and we helped him be a little bit more disciplined as far as using that for him. We use 5% in the five to 6% range of utilizing that, that, that, that gross revenue number.

(11:50):

So literally when he, whatever the, the March revenue number was in April, I said, you get 6% of that number or 5% of that number that you can spend in April, that's it. Don't spend any more than that, right? As you grow the revenue, we'll grow the, the, the marketing spend. And so I think that's something very important to keep in mind. And if you use that percentage, I think it's, it, it'll helps you stay in line and not get too far outta line with things. Don't go below the 2%. I always tell people that, especially if you've been doing marketing at, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8%, and you cut it, you know, in, in difficult times, like now you cut it down, all of a sudden people were seeing you. If you're a local business and they were seeing a billboard or they're hearing you on the radio or wherever it may be, and then all of a sudden they don't hear you at all, they might think you went outta business, especially during lean economic times.

(12:35):

So don't drop below that sort of 2%. Try to keep that level out there and, and keeping that going. So that is the Mr. Biz tip of the week. Again, we're gonna get back into talking with Jeremy, Jeremy Shapiro. You can find out more, by the way. It is website bayareamastermind.com. We'll put it in the show notes as well. And you can also follow Bay Area Mastermind on Facebook. So Jeremy, so you, you've started these businesses, you've had all these different experiences. How did you sort of morph to, and you said you were in a mastermind. What made you say, Hey, you know what, I, I wanna do a mastermind and I think I can do a good job with it.

(13:11):

You know, we found that there are a number of different formats from mastermind groups, and trust me, I've tried, you know a lot of different groups over the years. And oftentimes where a mastermind group comes from for many of our listeners as well, is this idea of like, well, why don't I gather some folks around me? We've, we've all heard that idea that you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with and who you hang around with. Well, if we could be more intentional about that and more conscious of that and surround ourselves with those who are doing what we're doing, or maybe even a step beyond to sort of help pull us up, then there's a lot of power in that Napoleon Hill author of "Think and Grow Rich". Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> had a whole chapter called "The Power of the Mastermind."

(13:51):

And one of the big ideas in there is that when you put two minds together, you don't get this whole math of one plus one equals two. It's not just additive, it's actually much greater than that. So the combination of the power of more than one mine together is really where new ideas come from where you get awareness of blind spots that you have in your business. And one of my favorite parts of this is it's where you find out about the things that you didn't know you didn't know, right? We all know the things that we do know or think we know a lot of us are aware of. Some of the blind spots we have are the areas we want to get more knowledge and want to grow, but the real opportunities are usually in the things you didn't even know about. So you couldn't even ask questions about. And the Mastermind gets you exposure to what other people are doing in their businesses, what's working, what's not. And that's where those light bulb and aha moments come from of you saying, Hey, I need to know more about that. Or, oh my gosh, is this a concern for my business? Or even better, is this a hidden opportunity I didn't know, didn't even know existed out there that I could be using my business as well.

(14:50):

Yeah, I think it's critically important, the whole, the Jim Ron aspect of the five people. I mean, I know for myself it's critically important. Whenever I hit a lull and I'm kind of feeling a little bit dull about things or whatever, I know there's certain people that I reach out to in my sort of inner circle of friends and colleagues and everything and kind of rub elbows with them, Hey, let's go grab lunch. Hey, you got time to talk on the phone for a little bit. Inevitably as we're catching up, hey, all your kids, I saw your kids are, you know, on Facebook, your kids' football and this and that. Inevitably we come up with something you know, that, oh my gosh, I never thought about that. Or, and it's just that mindset aspect of it. And I think that's a very powerful aspect of masterminds as, as, as you mentioned, you're getting around people that are like-minded and then being able to, you know, I always one of the things I always talk about is a lot of times businesses fail due to lack of self-awareness by the owner. The owner thinks that they understand everything, they know everything, and they're not, they're not open-minded to things. And I think a, a mastermind, if you approach it correctly with an open mind and you're not afraid of, of constructive criticism, can be super, super powerful.

(15:58):

It's so powerful. And like, look, as an entrepreneur and a business owner, it gets lonely at the top, right? Like when things are going well, you know, you, you tell your your team about that. They want raises. You tell vendors they wanna bring prices up, right? You tell family and friends, they start looking for handouts. Like, it can be tough when things are going really well, as strange as that sounds right. On the flip side, if you're having challenges or things are difficult, you share it with your team, your employees start polishing up resumes, vendors pull credit terms, right? Like it's challenging when you run your own business to have a community where you can truly share your successes and big wins where you can be vulnerable and ask for help, and where you can get constructive criticism by those who have nothing but your best interests at heart.

(16:38):

And so when with a structure mastermind meeting, you get that peer advisory, you get the camaraderie, you get the friendship, and you get that really key insight and input from others who want what's best for you. You know, we had one of our mastermind members had actually joined our group when he was still working like a nine to five job in a health food store, stock in the shelves. But he had this idea, and much like you said, Ken, he tested this idea online and found people were getting his ebook, right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And next thing you knew from this little p d f he was selling, that turned into a real business. And I'll never forget the day he came to our mastermind meeting and said, you know, I'm making more money from like people buying my P D F online than I am from working my nine to five j o b. I think I'm gonna quit this thing that turned into a seven figure business. And right in our mastermind, we saw that business pivot, fill a gap and launch a whole new business that's an eight figure business. Wow. Going from a stock room, boy, you know, stock and shelves to selling an ebook online to quite an e-commerce company. We see those kinds of pivots and that kind of growth all the time from our members.

(17:49):

So we're running outta time here in this segment, and we've got plenty of time in the next segment to talk about more specifics about Mastermind. But real quick Jeremy, what have you found? So I'm interesting someone who with your experience in a mastermind, have you found it to be, is it better to have people that are maybe industry specific? So let's say for example, a bunch of service a service-based employee owners, all that, or a more diverse industry group within the mastermind.

(18:17):

So every industry has trade groups. You can go to your conventions and find, you know, 10,000 people just like you. The real magic we've seen at the Bay Area Mastermind is the, is the cross pollination of ideas, right? This is where we've seen, you know, for example, we had an attorney in our group who's hearing how an e-commerce company is marketing and says, well, hang on a second. How can I apply those same techniques from your e-commerce business within my business and be different from my industry? Same e-commerce business is able to look at someone who's using direct mail, right? How many e-commerce businesses successfully launch nowadays and look at direct mail, which is still tremendously powerful. Sure. Right? So you're able to see that cross pollination of ideas go across industry and across boundaries. You have the retail company who learns new strategies from an email marketing company. You have a doctor who's applying best practices from a financial consultant. You don't find that in industry groups. You only get that from the true crosspollination of a carefully curated group that goes across industry lines.

(19:14):

Yeah, I love that. And I found that as well, like with, even with what I, when I work with clients is I like to work with d a diverse group. A lot of people that do what I do, they only focus on, you know, I only work with manufacturers. I like to do that to cross pollinate ideas. I, I, I took an idea, I developed a, at a medical practice and applied it to a chimney sweep company. I mean, it's just, you know, being a cross pollination of ideas I think is great. Again, we're gonna hit a break talking to Jeremy Shapiro. He's gonna tell us how to create a great mastermind group

(19:43):

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(20:14):

Check out all three of Mr. Business best-selling books at mrbizbooks.com. Now, once again, here's Mr. Biz.

(20:23):

Alright, welcome back to the show. So you've heard, so first of all, I should mention Jeremy Shapiro. Again, bayareamastermind.com, and also on Facebook, same name. So you've heard a little bit about the evolution of Jeremy through his, his career and his entrepreneur endeavors to getting into masterminds. You've heard some of the benefits of those. Now let's get into some real good stuff here. Some juice from Jeremy on how, what, what's, you know, for those of us who are thinking about maybe doing a mastermind or maybe even thinking about joining a mastermind, like what are some of the things that create like the best mastermind experience overall? You're muted. I

(21:03):

Found there's three different you know, sort of categories of mastermind with different aspects, pros and cons to them. And then really within that sort of two broader categories, right? So I like to say there's your peer draw groups versus your guru draw groups, right? Your guru groups are gonna be you've seen this, there's an author you like, you read their books, you attend their events, you sign up for their coaching, and then their sort of highest end offer is their mastermind to get to spend more time around them and help some of the magic pixie dust rubs off of them and onto you, right? So you are going to that group because you wanna be around that person, right? And for those of us who are you know, in the audience that are authors and experts like that might be the kind of group that you might run.

(21:41):

And for those of us who enjoy reading these books and go to events, that might be the kind of group you join, right? Those are good, but you're there not for the other people, but for the person who's running it. The other category is what I call your peer groups. And that's really what a lot of the groups that I've been part of are, and the groups that I run are because we carefully curate the right mix of people to be in the room with you where you're gonna have the most opportunity to grow. And it's not about the fact that, hey, you know, Jeremy's facilitating this group, or, you know, so-and-so's facilitating. It's really about the peers that are there with you that can help you. So instead of looking to one person for mentorship you're looking to your peers.

(22:18):

And that really is the original true idea behind the Mastermind, right? With beyond that, you sort of have your three categories, right? One I like to call sort of your accountability group. You might see these where maybe it's a, a weekly conference call you hop on or a weekly get together at a coffee shop. Your buy-in usually is pretty load and maybe like 97 bucks a month to hang around other folks and hold each other accountable. Usually it's maybe an hour at most. The downside is you don't get to really dive deep and really have a true hot seat for each business. And the meeting frequency is often too often to see much change from session to session. And given how little buy-in the turnover is is really high the compliance is really low and the accountability just generally isn't there, right? On the other end of that, we have, you know, what I call your high end destination groups.

(23:08):

These usually meet maybe two to three times a year, usually somewhere exotic or far away. You've got a day of travel on both sides, and then you're usually spending two days. You're really diving deep. These kinds of groups are fantastic and amazing. The downside is you're having, you know, a lot more travel time getting to and from these meetings the buy-in, you're usually talking, you know, mid five figures, sometimes up to six figures to be part of these, you know, higher end groups. And the meeting frequency only being two or three times a year, you're not really getting that right cadence to to talk about what's going on in the business. You can have an entirely new business, you know, know over a period of four or five months. And so that's sort of one of the downsides to a larger group like that.

(23:50):

Now, I also found that in between those is like a sweet spot. And so the Bay Area Mastermind groups, the way we've structured that is a monthly meeting with a monthly meeting. You have that right cadence that your business hasn't pivoted, but you have had enough time to truly take action on your business, implement some of the changes, and have the true accountability you need. And we meet for one full day locally. So there's not big travel on both sides of that. You're meeting with other local business owners who you might actually see and get together with outside of the full day mastermind. And your budget isn't up on the five six figure investment but you still have enough skin in the game that you have business owners who are like-minded that do show up, that are present and are willing to be held accountable and willing to hold you accountable Beyond that in terms of the structure.

(24:37):

If you're looking to run your own mastermind group, I'll share with you what we do at the Bay Area Mastermind is during the day, each member really has time to dive into their business during their dedicated member hot seat. You know, on our website, I have a whole deep dive on this if you wanna know how to run hot seats or have a successful hot, hot seat yourself. But there's four main topics that we make sure each person covers, right? One is you're gonna do if it's your first time, share who you are and what you do, but primarily you're gonna be catching the group up on your accountability items from last month of what got done and what came up along the way. You'll be sharing what, what's been working, what's not been working, and where you need help.

(25:14):

So what that might look like, Ken is you're gonna have someone share, Hey, last time, you know, we said we, we'd be getting this new product launched. And we did get that launched. Here's what worked well during that product launch. But on the, on the HR side, there've been some challenges that we're facing. You know, we're having a tough time on the hiring and here's a hiring funnel, and where I need help is, you know, what are the blind spots? What am I missing here to team you know, what's worked well for you for hiring that I could be implementing in my own business as well? And so really from sharing those resources, sharing what's working, sharing what's not, and, and getting the help you need, you have the accountability, you have the peer advisory, and you're really getting the valuable insights you need from those who want what's best for you and who have been there and done that. It's like having you know, I like to think of it like you have you know, nine other scientists out running experiments in their own business and coming back and showing those best results. And you get to leverage the findings and best practices of everybody else who's implementing their accountability items in their business as well. Yeah,

(26:11):

I love that. And I've experienced all sorts of different variations of what you've mentioned, and I love the aspect that you mentioned of their local businesses. So there are sp specific things that are happening in the local economy that maybe are not happening two hours away, three states away, you know, that n next country over that are specific to that area. You know, you know, if you've got, you know, I don't know, different natural disasters that are happening nearby, as, you know, how do you need to bob and weave around those things? How can you help, how can you maybe pivot into those to be able to provide help to people? But I really love the aspect of, you know, again, being vulnerable to say, Hey, you know what? This is not this, I, I absolutely swung and missed on this one. So who else has done anything like this?

(26:54):

And how have you had success? And when I've had that a as aspect in these businesses, holy crap, the things that come out are mind blowing because again, you get all these different industry experiences where, again, you may have a, a law firm, someone who's running a law firm that is completely different than someone who's running a, you know, a plumbing service company. But man, there's something you can apply there. And that's why I asked you that question at the end of the last segment about whether you have industry specific or sort of, you know, diversity. I love the diversity aspect of it for that very reason, because agreed, sometimes when you have those industry specific, people tend to get that tunnel vision. Like, this is how we do it, how, this is how you run a plumbing company. And so you get a little bit too much of that tunnel vision, whereas, and what you're talking about, the idea sharing has gotta be just amazing.

(27:41):

It's incredible. And what I find so interesting is, you know, everyone has a different big burning question they bring to the group each month, right? There's something on their mind, they're like, ah, I gotta solve this thing. It's keeping me up at night. If I could only fix this, my goodness wouldn't like be different. And everyone has different questions, and just because they have the question doesn't mean no one else has been there before and they have an answer to that. So for example, you know, it's not unusual for business owners to say, if only I had more leads, if only I could grow the business. Well, that's one kind of question. But then, you know, we have sometimes folks come in the group and they say, oh my gosh, I have way too many leads from my business, right? I have more business than I can handle.

(28:16):

I'm not getting quotes out, I'm, we're getting work done, but not getting invoices out. And you see some people are looking across the table scratching their head saying, how is that the issue? I've got that on lock. Let me tell you how we're executing. But by the way, how are you getting all that business? I'd love to learn more about that. And so just by that simple sharing, you're able to, you know, really see that growth. The biggest thing though is being open to being vulnerable and sharing what the challenges are because you never know who else is experiencing that, but isn't, but isn't comfortable saying be bold and respectful and providing feedback and calling people on, you know, where there are issues that maybe they might not want to hear. And on the flip side, when you do get that input from your peers who are around you they're coming at it from love. They want what's best for you. So be open to that feedback, even if it's, you know, outside of your area of comfort, because that's really where a lot of that growth is, is the things that come outside of that circle of comfort for you where others have been before.

(29:10):

Yeah, I love that. I think the vulnerability is the key aspect to it. And especially when you're getting constructive feedback from someone who's not in your industry, is not a competitor, you probably receive it a little bit differently, hopefully. So Jeremy, we're out of time here, but great, great information. Jeremy Shapiro bayareamastermind.com. Jeremy, thank you so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it.

(29:28):

Thank you so much again. This has been great.

(29:30):

Yeah, awesome. Awesome guys. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Have a great rest of your week. And don't forget, as always, cashflow is king.

(29:39):

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